Learning PHP?

Posts: 176 · Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:38 pm

Whoa...

Anyhow I choose PHP because I need some experiance with the whole Linux thing... Why not Flash and CF? Well, that cost more...

Posts: 1129 · Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:51 pm

how does cfm cost you more?
I am assuming you are hosting your sites here, so in fact coldfusion doesn't cost you anymore than php does Smile

The cost of cfm is a misconception and it runs killer on linux Smile

Posts: 1029 · Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:49 am

CF running killer is another misconception Wink

Just kidding... it does seem more reliable on linux...

Posts: 1129 · Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:58 am

or you can go with .net and spend your days patching a defeciant platform Wink

Posts: 176 · Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:18 am

I have the most basic plans so CF is not included, which I'm just fine with now. CF also doesn't seem to be as "universal", I keep seeing tags of this sort and that sort. Those things would exist only within CF. PHP might help me learn C++ too (need C++ for school..)

Posts: 1129 · Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:28 am

cfm is pretty universal, a lot of ppl like php because of all the free scripts but really do you use those? I like phpbb but I wouldn't use the other things for paying clients. (I can already hear Scotts answer, lol)

FYI~ cfm can also run .net now, so you can have the best of the 2 good worlds (j2ee & .net) and that would allow you to write code in c++ i believe.

The biggest problem with php right now is there is no underlying engine or platform, just tags.
But if you like it then Smile

I was just asking because I see a lot of ppl who would be able to learn cfm easier but stay away because they think it costs them money to program on it and it doesn't but everyone thinks it does.

Posts: 1029 · Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:29 am

PHP will familiarize you with a common syntax shared between java(script), c#, c++, C, and a few others. However, some of these languages use things like Classes, at which PHP5, c#, c++ are better at. Depending on where you want to go too of course.

With ColdFusion you have the power of java at your fingertips. However, there are alot of other variables to take into consideration... considering that if you want the power of java (which you do get with CF), maybe you should just get a linux plan and use JSP... not only will it cost less, but there's no middle ground application layer performing translations on hard to read code Wink

(im gonna get it for that one). For somebody who's looking to learn programming/scripting, I'd suggest staying away from coldfusion, but only because of the HTML style tag format used to perform many of the basic functions. Even PHP (as much as I hate it) is more straight forward to look at than CF.

IMHO of course...

Posts: 1129 · Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:47 am

Josh u think php is more straight forward to look at then cfm? **** u iz on crack boy!! haha

ok lets look at these
PHP, its basically an advanced version of perl (which has the hardest to read code IMO).
but you can run it about anywhere on anything and the community is good if you need help and it has the ability too do OO (which really a lot of ppl say they do but they really don't and it's not as important until you start doing enterprise sized apps, in which case you wouldnt be using php anyway.)
But you are also stuck with a 1 dimesional launguage.

.net
its pretty good but like all m$ products only runs on m$ equiptment which is total crap and one of the major reasons why m$ blows so bad! Also m$ isn't one to stick with any 1 technology and mark my words will abandon .net sooner than you think. It's their history and it will happen. Since you want to run on linux this takes this outta the picture even though it's more along the lines of the c++ you want.

jsp
jsp is the real powerhouse here but is also the hardest to learn but can run on any platform and it in itself is free and really there really isn't anything you can't do with java.

cfm
cfm has come along ways from when it was just a tag runner like the php still is. It can run on any platform. it's still tag based but now sits ontop of the j2ee platform and it compiles its code into java byte code which gives it a lot of the power of jsp, actually you can run jsp tags and code from within cfm now making it very powerful. New Atlanta also makes a version of coldfusion that also runs .net so really it covers almost any base you want to go to, plus it's easy to learn:)

Posts: 1029 · Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:14 am

I do... IMHO at least it doesn't look like this...

Code:

<CFQUERY>
SELECT * FROM tblName WHERE This=That, TheOther=SomethingElse ORDER BY OrderColumn, SomethingElse LIMIT 100
</CFQUERY>
<CFIF This=That>
Do Stuff
<CFELSE>
Do other stuff
</CFIF>

that doesn't look like programming... that looks like HTML Wink

At least w/ .NET it looks like you're actually programming

Code:

Imports System.Data
Imports System.Data.SqlClient

dim Conn as New SQLConnection(ConnString)
dim strSQL as string = "SELECT * FROM tblName"
dim C as New SQLCommand(strSQL, Conn)
dim DR as SQLDataReader
Conn.Open()
Try
DR = C.ExecuteReader()
Do While DR.Read()
Response.Write(DR(0) & DR(1))
Loop
DR.Close()
Catch Exc As Exception
'Error Handling Stuff Here...
End Try
Conn.Close()

And PHP...

Code:

$SQL = 'Select This From That';
mysql => blah blah;
hard to read w/ funny symbols and crap that make no sense like CF ;);

We know that PHP was born of something else (actually it wasn't, but it uses many of the same constructs and such but we'll play along). PHP5 is perfectly suited for enterprise apps. However, PHP is still in it's "infancy" so to speak and has a LONG way to come before it's truly what everybody says it is.

Ever heard of mono? Wink

Therefore multi platform. Nuff said.

I said CF was good and gave you options, but in my opinion it's harder to read than anything else out there. And again, why have all that middleware as an interpreter if you can just save POWER and go straight to coding te source? Time... we know... but I can still ask the question Wink

Posts: 1129 · Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:33 am

those are not very good examples Josh LOL!

the php one is absurd!!

first of all the .net might "look" more like programming to you, to me it looks like awhole lot more work to accomplish the same thing, which doesnt seem to smart to me.
So with your example you are saying that one thing in cfm takes 5 lines of code and in .net it takes 17, thats ridiculous!! And your php example is only missing about 20 more lines to do the same thing as well........

Josh if you think cfm is hard to read you are certainly in the minority.
A few months ago you also had no idea what xhtml was, remember that? haha Razz

Josh, you know some cfm so why you trying to write it incorrectly?
lemme rewrite your posted code to do match your .net code (nice try btw!)

Code:

<CFQUERY>
SELECT * FROM tblName
</CFQUERY>

to add additional error handling

Code:

<cftry>
<CFQUERY>
SELECT * FROM tblName
</CFQUERY>
<cfcatch type="database">
error message
</cfcatch>
</cftry>

Posts: 1029 · Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:31 pm

LOL it was late... it was after 2AM, i had been drinking, and playing battlefield 1942... that was a bad example. My brain was not in the right mood to be posting Embarassed

.Net offers ALOT more control over every action executed... that's the power of real programming. Wink

XHTML has nothing to do w/ this... and up until a few months ago I was only a function guy not a form guy... I've started focusing more on the design stuff since I have the dev down pat.

CF looks like HTML... why should you have to stop start every "script" line w/ <CF* or </CF*... the brackets thing just blows me away. And having the code mixed in w/ presentation code... the world is moving way beyond that. I know you have CFC's and other things available to you as a CF programmer... but still... my point is that every other good language is beginning to move to a more professional model where Data Access, Presentation, and Application layer code is separated. nTier... ya know?

Posts: 1129 · Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:32 pm

lol, yeah yeah yeah.... haha

.Net offers ALOT more control over every action executed...

no it doesnt

that's the power of real programming.

no, the real power of "real" programming is whats between the monitor and the chair Smile

CF looks like HTML... why should you have to stop start every "script" line w/ <CF* or </CF*

again, that has to do with whats between the monitor and the chair, it's called seperation of presentaion and logic and cfm gives your the choice to do either without having to have your tongue up bills azz.

my point is that every other good language is beginning to move to a more professional model where Data Access, Presentation, and Application layer code is separated. nTier... ya know?

yup, cfm certainly has that and there isnt anything .net can do that cfm cant do with less code, on more platforms.

.net does have that old school syntax and if at the end of the day you feel good about writing more code to do the same thing, then so be it.......

Your problem Josh is that you try to over complicate things so .net might be the fit for you. Smile

But again this thread didn't even involve .net since Connie wants to run it on linux and since ya know m$ doesn't try to monopolize anything, it isn't an option, at least shes smart enough to stay away from the windows platform Wink

Posts: 1029 · Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:04 pm

lol yeah yeah MS killed your dog - we know.

Up until you spoke the only reason I mentioned anything .net was to suggest PHP since thy syntax is very similar to many other languages...

PHP will familiarize you with a common syntax shared between java(script), c#, c++, C, and a few others. However, some of these languages use things like Classes, at which PHP5, c#, c++ are better at.

and it would make the syntax barrier easier for her to move between languages... not something CF will do for her. She wanted something that she would be able to use over and over again and in many different areas. CF is multi platform, but it uses that... syntax if you can call it that... (other than (x)html)

And, offtopic, .NET is multiplatform now... mono runs great...

Anytime anybody says anything other than CF and Linux rules you hijack a thread... there's alot of proof throughout these forums...

Posts: 1129 · Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:27 pm

Well Josh thats because you dont know what the **** you are talking about half the time!

Hello Josh, cfm runs on j2ee now, so why if you chose to could you not write cfm in your "more real programming syntax"? Since they all got that from java and lets see, j2ee is "java", you don't have a clue to what you are refering to so why do it?

And I brought up the fact that 6 months ago you didn't know what xhtml was because you are trying to talk like you are some ace in the hole programmer from way back which you are not and more than likely you are just repeating info that some other ill informed person told you and you took as the truth. You might as well throw in that there are more available jobs in .net, which there are, too bad they are also very low paying but you wouldn't add that part would you?

Code:

PHP will familiarize you with a common syntax shared between java(script), c#, c++, C, and a few others. However, some of these languages use things like Classes, at which PHP5, c#, c++ are better at.

Yup and so you are telling me you can't do that with cfml? Again that's just you being misinformed. Once again, CFML compliles to java byte code which you can run in classes, objects, really whatever you want, just cause you don't know how to do it doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't possible.

Anytime anybody says anything other than CF and Linux rules you hijack a thread... there's alot of proof throughout these forums...

I seemed to recall you hijacking this thread and taking it over to .net and then spewing all this crap that isn't even close to being true so of course I will say something.

Posts: 76 · Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:06 pm

Here's my $.02....

I use .NET at my full time job, becuase I have to.......I use ColdFusion about 99.99999% of the time at home with my small potatoes...........part time business........

I'm not near as advanced with ColdFusion or .NET as some of the regulars here......but I'm pretty good with both of them....much more so with ColdFusion. I think most of the web development community who has never really ventured into ColdFusion is a bit misinformed. CF is VERY powerful and it has been able to accomplish everything I've asked it to do.

Call me a non-programmer because I use ColdFusion more or perfer it........I don't care........sticks and stones baby....sticks and stones...........I do use .NET and I at times get frustrated....mainly because I don't know it near as well as CF and when I come across a problem, it takes me longer to figure out what I'm doing wrong and I know it could be done in less time and in less lines of code with CF.

I know CF has some server issues when operated on Windows......but, correct me if I'm wrong..hasn't it improved with each new version that has been released (I'm not a server guy.......so I may in fact be wrong....but I have myself experienced an improvement in performance from 5.0 to the latest version).

.NET has itself come across some security issues.......and since it's MS, it will always be vulnerable to MS haters and hackers.

I'll shut up now.

MB